Dr. Sarbmeet Kanwal, PhD in Theoretical Physics

“To motivate ourselves to build this earth community. We will need to feel in our hearts, the glory and magnificence of this cosmic creation.”

I'd like to introduce Dr. Sarbmeet Kanwal to our series. He's an award-winning educator and a pioneer in novel ways of teaching quantum physics and astronomy. He holds a PhD in theoretical physics from the California Institute of Technology. His aptitude for explaining intricate scientific concepts in everyday language has made him a sought after speaker among both science and non-science communities. He gave a TEDx talk in 2019 on our new origin story called Chaos to Cosmos. ( https://bit.ly/3Q9n3Xs )

Sarbmeet is a follower of the Sikh religion and a longtime board member of the Monmouth Center for Religions and Ethical Thought, where he helped initiate several interfaith projects including the co-founding of an award-winning youth leadership program called Mosaic, which stands for mobilizing our students for action to build interfaith community.

In the last two years, he has been assisting in the teaching of courses on the new cosmology offered by the Deeptime Network organization and in August of this year, 2022, he will be the sole instructor for a four-week Deeptime course called: Quantum Wisdom Essential Insights from a Revolutionary Science. ( https://dtnetwork.org/product/quantum-theory/ )

*Audio file coming soon.

Transcription:

Cami Flake:

I'd like to welcome Sarbmeet Kanwal to our series. As I was watching your Ted talk, From Chaos to Cosmos, I was really struck by your inspiration for creating Mosaic.

I felt I had similar inspiration for starting these conversations. And I'm going to quote you, you said, "to motivate ourselves to build this earth community. We will need to feel in our hearts, the glory and magnificence of this cosmic creation." And so I'm wondering, how do we find that deep inspiration to motivate ourselves into action, to making good choices? My first thought was looking at our belief systems and looking at religions, at our communities. I was wondering if we could start there talking about your religious beliefs and how they have informed your relationship to Earth and then on, into your work in the world as a physicist.

Dr. Sarbmeet Kanwal:

One thing I guess I want to say outright here is that my inspiration has come both from the religion that I grew up with, which is Sikhism and also from my training in science and physics. So I have over time come to see a lot of common themes that have emerged for me both in my religion and in the science that I do. And these common themes have made it all the more powerful for me to be able to be inspired by them, to be able to create more of an urge inside me to want to take action, to do more for certainly for the environment, which is one of the major issues that we have today, but also for the overall hope that our earth community can come together in peace, harmony and love which I have come to feel is is the destiny that, that we have, we just need to figure out ways to get there.

Yes. So what are those common themes?

So one of the things that my religion says is that the concept of God is an abstract concept. One of the first phrases or lines in my scripture is that God is nothing more than truth. And this idea of a formless abstract God, that is essentially identified with the truth, which to me is essentially the principles and the laws that run our universe and the idea which comes out very much from my religion as well, that God is to be found in everything in our environment. So the identification of a God with the universe helped me to encapsulate these ideas along with my scientific training to begin to see God, not so much as some kind of an external being that is a creator but something that has arisen from the universe itself as a way of unfolding and creating through the process of evolution, a universe that we now find ourselves in.

So when you think of truth, did that automatically make you think about science and seeking?

Absolutely. Because to me, in my science training, truth is to be found in the laws that govern our universe, which is what the pursuit of science is all about. And so if there is one thing that we can universally agree on, is those principles that run the universe. There's no difference in that, with respect to a nationality or a religion or a race these are some principles that we can all agree upon, and that is a huge source of unification in a world that we increasingly find is polarized and divided fragmented. So I see a possibility of unification in looking at things in that way.

Growing up as a follower of the Sikh religion, how did this love of earth and science come to you? Did that come from your family or your greater community or specific text?

Actually to tell you the truth, it didn't come from my family, didn't come from my community. I went through a personal evolution through my youth and even part of my adulthood. So the concept of religion that I was initially born into was a more rigid way of looking at religion. It was more in some ways, I would even say, ritualistic in its approach. So my initial reaction was one of rebellion. And if anything, I had lots of situations where I wasn't in agreement with what my family was telling me to do. And I was constantly questioning some of the beliefs that that they felt were the right ones to hold. So it has been a process of tremendous evolution for me, where I think perhaps to some degree through my training in science, I was able to find my own way in order to look at aspects of my religion, that appealed to me. That went beyond a lot of the the ritualistic kinds of things that I had, in the beginning, associated with.

So I came to look at my religion in a very personal way which certainly speaks to me, which inspires me, which actually supports a lot of the scientific knowledge that I gathered over the years. And it took a long time before I was able to completely, in my own mind, bring these two, to some degree, diverging ways of thinking. You know, a lot of people think that science and religion really don't mesh with each other. And I too had those thoughts for a long period of time. But over time I was able to reconcile them together. And to me, that reconciliation was a very powerful moment where it suddenly sort of came together for me. And I started to see the world in more unified way of looking at things instead of a fragmented one.

Was there something specific that you saw in your religious beliefs and in science that helped you merge those two systems?

So it's certainly had to do with people that came into my life. I see myself as a constant seeker and obviously a very curious person, which is what attracted me to science in the first place. So I was constantly reading, investigating, looking at people that had something to say in this area, especially in the area where spirituality and science come together, the intersection between them. So it was through those people and writings that I came across, that I started to gradually build a new picture in my head. And there was actually one particular breakthrough moment. When I was attending a talk by the author, Michael Dowd, I don't know if you know about him. He has written a book called, Thank God for Evolution. And he's actually a Christian pastor who over time understood the significant and value of evolution to his own religion.

And it was sitting in that talk, I remember that I suddenly had a transformative moment, a breakthrough, I would say. And it suddenly all came together for me. And I remember that I had tears in my eyes at that time, at that point. So yeah, it was definitely a growth process for me, but it all came to a head at that point and things really changed for me. And then everywhere I looked, I started to find evidence for the things that I had just realized and those things strengthened in my consciousness more and more.

In Thank God for Evolution, was there something specific that he talked about, as we know more, more about our evolutionary process, knowing your Sikh religion, knowing your scripture, that all of a sudden you thought they matched or drew you back in?

Yeah, it was like that. So I actually remember the, the specific words that he used. At one point he said that we should regard the evolution story as our new scripture, that it is through the evidence, it's through the narrative that this story tells that we can get the kind of inspiration that we have typically looked upon our religious scriptures for. And that kind of really clicked in my mind that we now need a new story. The stories that we have in our religions are certainly very valuable and they've offered inspiration to humankind for millennia. But today, in this day and world that we have, and with the scientific knowledge that we have, we really need a new narrative. And when I realized that the evolution story was that narrative that really came home to me, and I started to see parallels between that and my religious scriptures as well by interpreting them in slightly different ways, from the way that I'd been looking at them in the past.

So interesting. Do the youth you work with come to you to help them bridge these two systems of beliefs? I'm curious if there's a specific passage in your religious text that you've reinterpreted.

So my religious text creates a picture of a super natural, all powerful being that cannot be compared with any kind of a human form. I mean, that is one of the things that I find quite powerful specifically. It says that you cannot put an image to this. You cannot put a form to this. You cannot even think of it as something outside of our universe, that it is part and parcel of our universe, that it is in everything. It's everything that you observe it's in yourself, it's in every human being. So this emphasis of putting the existence of such a power within everything, instead of sort of external to everything and somehow governing it or creating it, that idea really hit home to me. And so I was already very much enamored with the amazing wonders of science that I perceive when I look outside and I understand the scientific underpinnings of how everything works in the universe. And so I already have this awe and wonder about my environment, about the universe. And if I can now identify this awe and wonder with the power that exists within us and around us, it makes it all the more meaningful to me. And so by understanding it in that way, it all sort of came together for me that this way of looking at it makes a lot of sense.

And do you think we need both, what does religion bring that maybe science doesn't?

I do think that we need both. I think that science provides an umbrella within which we can see how each of the various traditions that have developed over time, how they can fit within, underneath that umbrella and what these religions provide is practices. And to some degree, even rituals, I'm not against rituals at all. I think that they have value. Community is I think one of the most powerful things that a religion provides, because there's some magic that happens in community that you cannot do if you were just sitting in your room reflecting and so on. So those kinds of things are there and present for us because of these traditions. And we should not undervalue them. I think they're very, very important, but they also have to be understood in the right context because everyone is aware that despite all these good things, religion has also brought to our world much division even violence to some degree. And one might even think that it has become in some ways, a dividing force rather than a uniting force in our world. So I think that if religion can be complimented by our greater understanding and knowledge that comes from science than we can overcome some of these negative directions that have come to be. And we can still extract the goodness from those religions without falling in a trap that can divide us.

When you were talking, I was thinking how religion perhaps could bring the heart area of our work because with science we can live up in our head and not always remember that this heart space is so powerful and important and real. But it's so easy to offend people when you get into the minute details of everybody's different belief systems. So how do we come together as a community?

Yeah, actually this reminds me of a quote that I just recently heard, which I thought was very powerful. And it essentially said that the perspective that science is giving us, of the universe, can help dissolve the rigid lines that exist between religions today. And I find that very powerful, that is kind of the image that I want to have.

When I was listening to Jennifer Morgan, give her talk and she was presenting the the periodic table of elements.

Yes, yes,

Saying the order of these elements, that's our story. These should be looked upon as scripture. And as I started to tell the story to my family, I could see them getting stuck in the details. They're like, well, what happened before that? How do you know that that's true? and I don't have all those answers. And so we get stuck.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's easy to get stuck in those details, but what truly matters is the big picture. What is this big picture that is being provided by science? And you mentioned, heart versus head. So just like there is a trap on the side of religion where you can fall into the rigidities and the sharp and rigid lines between the religions, I think there's a trap on the science side as well. You can very easily fall prey to the rational, the reductionist way of looking at science. And unfortunately, most scientists look at it that way. And so for them, science is hard facts and knowledge and so on, but I think wisdom lies in actually looking beyond those facts and finding, into the heart space that I believe exists in both religion and science.

And so when you start to see that wisdom aspect of science, and you start to feel in your own heart as to the awe and the wonder that it creates and how it allures you to the universe. Then that is the beginning of, I don't know, you can call it religious science or scientific religion or whatever, but that's what you need. And that's what I meant in my Ted talk. When I said that you have to feel it in your heart. If the cosmic story is merely a bunch of facts relating one thing after the other, after the other, there is not a whole lot of power in it, but once you start to feel it in your heart and you're drawn to it. And you feel joy arising in yourself. When you think about some of those amazing things, how we've actually come to be in this universe I think there is tremendous power in that.

Yes, I agree. I know when I started to really let in that we all came from that dust or

The fireball, the

Fireball, and looking at myself as perhaps earth consciousness. And that we are all part of this story. I was thinking even with my own body. Most of the time I feel like I'm living up here. Living in my eyes and ears and my head and thoughts, but if I get her hurt, there's a wisdom in my body that I'm not a part of. I don't tell it how to make my skin heal over. And sometimes I feel like that's how we can look at earth, right? That there are powerful things that are happening and that we can hurt ourselves. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, but there are other wisdoms that we need to protect and save.

Yeah. There is power in healing. That's one of the things that has developed through evolution is a kind of a resilience, I mean, look at how much resilience we as humans have. We can be hurt. We can be diseased, we can be wounded in so many ways and then nature has figured out ways to heal us over time. Right. And same is true with our environment, with the earth. We've destroyed forests and they come back, if given the right kind of environment. So there's a tremendous amount of resilience that we have as products of the evolution story that has gotten us here. So yeah, there is a lot of hope and optimism that comes from thinking things in that way.

Yeah.

Also the connectivity, I mean, that's another important thing that comes from the evolution story is our deep connection through the process of the story that we have with each other, everything that we can think about in our bodies, in our inside, in our skin everywhere, you can trace it back to its development in some, either entity or life billions of years ago. And so we are connected to everything through that, that sequence of events in the same way that you are connected to your brothers and sisters, through your parents, right? It's really the same story, except that instead of going a few years up the road, you have to go billions of years up in time to look to see those connections.

I was really struck by the imagery that you shared in the Ted talk with it. That looks like brain connectivity.

Oh yeah, that's right.

So as we try to make our way forward towards a flourishing earth, if somebody's listening to this and feeling inspired by this conversation, but doesn't know a good first step or what they should do, do you have any recommendation or offering?

Well, I really believe in the fact that people come to the truths that we are talking about in many different ways. So I believe that there is no one process or one recipe that will necessarily work for everyone. But my feeling is that if you look deeply inside yourself, and if you're able to identify those things, that allure you, those things, that you feel a passion inside for, if you're able to identify them, then they will take you to this understanding in all kinds of different ways. But what is required is is authenticity in being able to identify those and then do whatever it takes to follow through on those roads. And there are guidances and pointers everywhere. You just have to have your eyes open and you have to look, and you will find things along the way that will guide you towards where you need to go. You know, another quote comes to my mind and this was actually from one of my students that I teach. And he said that there are only two significant events in your life. One is the birth of your life. And the second, I'm probably not saying this properly, but the second is when you find out what your life is about. That's it.

That's so true. And just to add on I feel so blessed that I found the Deeptime Network Community. I feel like community is really where you can find resilience and strength and to keep educating yourself. Like you were saying, these allurements, so you can continue to make the choices that would be in the right direction.

Absolutely. The wonderful thing about community is that we draw our strength from each other. And that in itself is a very powerful thing to be able to do. Because we need that. As they say in Deeptime, it's about differentiation, subjectivity, and community. And so it is through that community that you raise yourself and your community to the next level. And and that's really how evolution works. It's always by bringing things together and, and that's exactly what community is.

Yeah. I remember hearing a quote something to the effect that you become who you surround yourselves with.

Absolutely true.

Well, I just want to thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Is there anything else you would like to add before we do your portrait?

You had mentioned if there was anything in my scripture that speaks to the environment and so forth. So I was actually looking through some of my scriptures the other day, and one thing that I found, if you don't mind, I can actually read it.

I'd love that, thank you.

So I I'll read it in the language in which my scriptures are written, which is it's called the Punjabi language. It's an Indian language. And so in Punjabi, it says: the translation of this is that the wind is your master teacher. That's the translation of the word guru, which I think we use a lot in English as well. So it says the wind is your master teacher. Water is your father and the earth is your mother. And night and day are the two nurses, one male, one female, which form the playground of all of humanity, the playground of the world. So we grow up playing in the lap of night and day. So that's a, a nice way I thought of looking at what our environment and our connection with our environment is that it's really an ancestral connection. And it's also an educator connection. We need to learn from our environment. It's a source of wisdom and teaching to us. And it's of course, a source in which we enjoy ourselves. We play, we celebrate, that's how we need to look at this world.

That's beautiful. So poetic. Oh, one more thing before you go, do you have a blessing for the earth?

A blessing for the earth. I think my blessing would have to be for the humanity that inhabits the earth. I think the earth is giving us plenty of love and care, which is what has brought us here. And I think the earth in return is expecting our love and care for it. And if we can all wisen up to that piece of wisdom I think we can continue to have this wonderful, blessed relationship with our mother planet so that's my blessing. That's what I hope for humanity.

Thank you.